Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pedwarau

Carneddau (SO 063 545)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pedwarau, with the summit height and drop of the hill analysed via LIDAR data by Aled Williams and subsequently confirmed by a Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey which took place on the 6^th October 2017.

The criteria for the list that this name change applies to are:

Y Pedwarau – Welsh hills at and above 400m and below 500m in height that have 30m minimum drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams, with the Introduction to the Mapping Mountains publication of this list appearing on the 30^th January 2017.

The hill is adjoined to the Fforest Glud range of hills which are situated in the eastern part of Mid and West Wales (Region B, Sub-Region B1), and it is positioned between the town of Llanfair-ym-Muallt (Builth Wells) to the south south-west and the small community of Hundred House to the east.

Carneddau (SO 063 545)

The hill appeared in the 400m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website under the directional name of Carneddau South-West Top, with an accompanying note stating Name from hill to the North-East.  During my early hill listing I thought it appropriate to either invent a name for a hill, or use a name that appeared near to the summit of the hill on Ordnance Survey maps of the day.  My preference was to use farm names and put Pen, Bryn or Moel in front of them.  On occasion I also used a directional name based on supplanting the name of a higher hill and adding a directional component to the name.  This is not a practice that I now advocate as with time and inclination place-name data can be improved either by asking local people or by examining historical documents, through this form of research an appropriate name for the hill can usually be found, and in the case of this hill it was four local farmers who told me that the land where this hill is situated is a part of the Carneddau, and this is substantiated by historical and contemporary Ordnance Survey maps.  Therefore, as a directional name only adds an invented component to the name of the hill, this is dispensed with in favour of the name that is in use locally.

Carneddau South-West Top

436m

SO063545

147

200

Trig pillar. Name from hill to the North-East.

The first local farmer I asked about this hill and its name was Sandy Price who farms from Upper Pentre which is below the hill to its south-east, Sandy told me that this hill is a part of the Carneddau (pronouncing it as the Car-neth-ee) hill and that he had never heard separate names for any of the hills that I was describing.  This is where the mind of a hill bagger is distinctly different to that of a farmer / grazer, as Sandy thought of all this land as one hill, whist a hill bagger would distinguish the land taking in the Carneddau hill as four separate P30s.  Sandy suggested I visit Colin Wheel who farms from Ddole.  I then visited Rhiwlas; the farm above Upper Pentre, Sandy’s neighbour was out early in the morning and smiled as I huffed and puffed up the steep lane, he also confirmed that the hill is a part of the Carneddau hill.  Later in the day after I’d visited the various P30s taking in the Carneddau hill I visited Colin Wheel and his brother Jim.  Colin is aged 71 and Jim 85 and both were doing work on their farm, Colin on a quad bike and Jim tending to a tractor.  They have farmed this area all of their lives and were a delight to speak with, with smiles and hospitality, and also the same information given me earlier in the day, the hill is known as the Carneddau and this takes in much of the land that today is designated open access land and some of the enclosed land on its eastern side, of which this hill is a part, and that there are no separate names for any of the P30s, as in a farmers / grazers mind they are a part of the same hill, which is known as the Carneddau.

Colin and Jim Wheel were a delight to meet and speak with

This information is substantiated by a number of historical maps, some of which are presented below.

The name is presented as Caernedde Hill at the time of the Tithe map

The name appears as the Carneddau Rocks on the Ordnance Survey Draft surveyors map

The name is given as Carneddau on the Ordnance Survey One-Inch 'Old Series' map

Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in the Y Pedwarau is Carneddau and this name was derived from local enquiry and substantiated from various historical and contemporary maps. 

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Fforest Glud

Name:  Carneddau

Previously Listed Name:  Carneddau South-West Top 

Summit Height:  435.8m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  147

Summit Grid Reference:  SO 06304 54532 

 

Drop:  36.5m (converted to OSGM15)

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of the Carneddau (SO 063 545)

For details on the survey of Carneddau

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (December 2017)