Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pedwarau - The 400m Hills of Wales

Foel Fawr (SN 900 904)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pedwarau, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 18^th April 2014.

The criteria for the list that this name change affects are:

Y Pedwarau - These are the Welsh hills at and above 400m and below 500m in height that have 30m minimum drop,  with the introduction to the publication of this list on Mapping Mountains appearing on the 30th January 2017.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.

The hill is part of the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills situated in the north-western part of mid and west Wales, and is positioned between the small communities of Penffordd-las (Staylittle) to the north-west and Llawr-y-glyn to the east north-east, with the reservoir of Llyn Clywedog to the hill’s south.

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Foel Fawr

The hill appeared in the 400m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s v-g.me website under the name Bryn yr Hwrdd, this name appears on the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map over 1 km north-westward from this hill’s summit and is consistently placed on Ordnance Survey maps applicable to land centred at SN 899 911.    

During my early hill listing I used the map name that appeared closest to the summit of the listed hill or which seemed most appropriate for the hill, without due consideration for its positional value, doing so can perpetuate the use of inappropriate names.  This is not a practice that I now advocate as with research either conducted locally or historically a more appropriate name for the hill can usually be found.

Bryn yr Hwrdd

421m

SN900904

136

214/215

The name this hill is now listed by in the Y Pedwarau is Foel Fawr, and this was derived from the Ordnance Survey enlarged mapping that is hosted on the Geograph website.  This mapping became publicly available after the original P30 lists were published on Geoff Crowder's v-g.me website.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey enlarged map on the Geograph website

Since the publication of these P30 lists there have been a number of historical Ordnance Survey maps made available online, including the series of Six-Inch maps on the National Library of Scotland website, much of the place-name information on these maps were the source for what now appears on the Ordnance Survey enlarged mapping hosted on the Geograph website.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map published in 1885

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Foel Fawr

Previously Listed Name:  Bryn yr Hwrdd 

Summit Height:  422.9m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 90029 90416 

 

Drop:  44.1m (converted to OSGM15)

For details on the survey of Foel Fawr

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and Yr Uchafion

Bwa’r Llyn (SN 798 214)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales and the Yr Uchafion, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 14^th April 2014.

The criteria for the two listings that this name change affects are:

Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.

Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams. 

The hill is situated in the Y Mynydd Du, which is a range of hills forming the western part of the Brecon Beacons National Park (Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog) in south Wales, and is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest towns being Ystradgynlais to the south and Llanymddwfri (Landovery) to the north.

Bwa'r Llyn (SN 798 214)

The hill first made an appearance in a hill list in the late 1920’s when Arthur St George Walsh listed it as Bannau Sir Gaer, and it was also included by Ted Moss under the name of Banau Sir Gaer Point W in The Two-Thousands of Wales which was published in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal.

Unfortunately these early listings are now almost forgotten, but their use of 50ft, either as a prominence value or as a single ring contour, has been used in more recent times in its 15m whole numbered metric equivalent, one example being by John and Anne Nuttall within their guide to The Mountains of England and Wales Volume 1 Wales.  However, this hill was not included in their first edition to the Welsh mountains and was only later included due to details sent them after a rudimentary survey of the hill had taken place.

This hill’s prominence was surveyed using a rudimentary staff five times over four visits, with the details forwarded to John and Anne Nuttall who subsequently surveyed the hill using their own rudimentary method.  Importantly the details of the surveys were sent to John and Anne under the hill name of Waun Lefrith, which is the name that appears closest to this hill’s summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger maps.

This hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall was confirmed via a letter and it made its appearance under the name of Waun Lefrith in the 2^nd Edition of their guide which was published in 1999.

Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation.  However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents and since this hill’s inclusion as a Nuttall extensive place-name research has taken place for this hill range, and the subsequent details are included in the Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales list. 

The name used for this hill in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) is Bwa’r Llyn.  This name is based on local enquiry and historical Ordnance Survey maps.

   

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Y Mynydd Du

Name:  Bwa’r Llyn

Previously Listed Name:  Waun Lefrith 

Summit Height:  676.2m (converted to OSGM15, Trimble GeoXH 6000)

OS 1:50,000 map:  160

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 79820 21451 (Trimble GeoXH 6000) 

 

Drop:  16.1m (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

For details on the survey of Bwa’r Llyn

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and 700m Twmpau

Trwsgl (SH 663 679)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru and the 700m Twmpau, with the summit height, bwlch height and their locations, the drop and status of the hill derived from a Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey conducted by Myrddyn Phillips.

Trwsgl (SH 664 679)

The criteria for the three listings that this name change affects are:

Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales - Welsh hills whose summit is at least 2.5km from the nearest paved public road and the hill has 15m minimum drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams and is available as adownloadable e-booklet and print-booklet version on Mapping Mountains Publications with the up-to-date master list available to download on the Mapping Mountains site in Google Doc format.

Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams

Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru – Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 15m minimum drop, with an accompanying sub list entitled the Welsh Highland Subs, the criteria for which is all Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 10m or more and below 15m of drop.  This list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams with the Introduction to the list published on Mapping Mountains in November 2015 and the latest update relating to the list published on Mapping Mountains in January 2023.

Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru by Aled Williams and Myrddyn Phillips

700m Twmpau - Welsh hills at or above 700m and below 800m in height with 30m minimum drop, with an accompanying sub list entitled the 700m Sub-Twmpau with the criteria for this sub category being all Welsh hills at or above 700m and below 800m in height with 20m or more and below 30m of drop, with the word Twmpau being an acronym standing for thirty welsh metre prominences and upward.  The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips and is available to download in Google Doc format from Mapping Mountains.

700m Twmpau by Myrddyn Phillips

The hill is adjoined to the Carnedd Llywelyn group of hills, which are situated in the north-western part of North Wales (Region A, Sub-Region A1), and it is positioned with the A55 road to its north-west and the A5 road to its south-west, and has the town of Bethesda towards the west south-west.

This hill was first listed by Arthur St George Walsh in his late 1920’s unpublished compilation to The 2000-footers of England and Wales, and first made an appearance in a published hill list in the 1940 Rucksack Club Journal in Ted Moss’s list to The-Two Thousands of Wales.  These early listings included this hill under the composition of Y Drosgl and Drosgl respectively, both followed the composition of the name that appeared on maps of the day.

The changes to the composition of the name of this hill on Ordnance Survey and Bartholomew maps are detailed below:

OS 1816 Draft Surveyors Map:  Y Trwsgol

OS 1841 One-Inch ‘Old Series’ Map:  Y Drosgl

OS 1888 Six-Inch Map:  Drosgol

OS 1901 Six-Inch Map:  Drosgl

Bartholomew 1920’s Half-Inch:  Y Drosgl

Extract from the 1816 Ordnance Survey Draft Surveyors Map

Hill list authors are prone to accept the name given the hill on the map of the day, without further enquiries being made.  However, as with numerical data where there are now independent surveyors producing accurate heights for hills that are fed in to hill lists, there are also people undertaking extensive place-name research that produce more appropriate names for hills than those currently in use and these are also fed in to hill lists.  This research is based on local enquiry and historical documentation, and as with accurate surveyed heights that improve data within listings, place-name research does likewise.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map

In the case of this hill it was Aled Williams who conducted extensive local enquiries with the people who work the land where this hill is situated and whose families have lived in this area for generations.  During this research he found that the preferred pronunciation of the name of this hill is Trwsgl, which favours that first documented by the Ordnance Survey with the variation that the definite article ‘Y’ has been dropped.

This hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Trwsgl in the Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales (Europeaklist, Haroldstreet, v-g.me and Mapping Mountains 2015) with the following explanation appearing in the booklet version of the list:

Names given for the hills in this list follow correct Welsh usage and are taken from a variety of sources, not just the paper and online mapping produced by the Ordnance Survey.  OS maps of Wales are not always correct in the naming of a hill, or may give a spelling that does not conform to correct Welsh usage.  Importantly, if no name has been discovered for a hill from any source, it is referred to as Pt. xxm (Pt. for ‘Point’ or ‘Pwynt’), using the generally accepted convention, rather than making up a bogus name for which there is no historical or local evidence of use.

An example of this thoughtful naming policy is highlighted by the 757m hill at grid reference SH 663 679, which is listed in this booklet as ‘Trwsgl’.  The hill appears under the name ‘Drosgl’ in the Welsh Nuttalls and Hewitts hill lists respectively, following the composition of the name that appears on contemporary OS maps.  The translation of this name into English is rendered as ‘rough land’ and both trosgl (y drosgl) and trwsgl are accepted variations of the same adjective.  However, ‘Trwsgl’ was the form originally recorded for this hill by the OS in 1816 and extensive research conducted for this listing found that this is still the most used form locally.  We believe that instances like this enrich the listing and provide an element of historical interest to the publication.

Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in the Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru and the 700m Twmpau is Trwsgl and its preferred pronunciation was derived from local enquiry.

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Carnedd Llywelyn

Name:  Trwsgl

Previously Listed Name:  Drosgl

 

OS 1:50,000 map:  115

Summit Height:  756.9m (converted to OSGM15)

Summit Grid Reference:  SH 66387 67984 

 

Bwlch Height:  720.3m (converted to OSGM15)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SH 66787 67818

Drop:  36.6m

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (June 2016)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Trichant - The 300m Hills of Wales and Y Trechol - The Dominant Hills of Wales

Gelli Hir (SN 999 883)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Trichant and Y Trechol - The Dominant Hills of Wales, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 7^th February 2014 and also on the 2^nd May 2014 along with the Leica GS15.

The criteria for the two listings that this name change affects are:

Y Trichant - These are the Welsh hills at and above 300m and below 400m in height that have 30m minimum drop,  with the introduction to the re-naming and the publication history of this list appearing on Mapping Mountains on the 13^th May 2017.

Y Trechol - The Dominant Hills of Wales - These are the Welsh P30 hills whose prominence  equal or exceed half that of their absolute height.  With the criteria for Lesser Dominant status being those addition Welsh P30 hills whose prominence is 33% or more and below 50% of their absolute height.

The hill is situated in the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the northern part of mid Wales.  The hill is positioned to the south-west of Caersws and to the north-east of Llanidloes, with the small community of Llandinam and the Afon Hafren (River Severn) to its east.

Gelli Hir (SN 999 883)

The hill appeared in the 300m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s  v-g.me website under the name of; Rhosfawr, which at that time was taken as the name of the hill, however this is the name of a farm which is situated to the west of the hill’s summit.

Rhosfawr

308m

SN999884

136

214

Clem/Yeaman. Twin top.

The name this hill is now listed by is Gelli Hir, this name can be translated as long grove, and this was derived from examination of the Ordnance Survey Historical 1:25,000 map as well as the Tithe map, coupled with tentative details from local enquiries.  The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act.  This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods.  The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land.  This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.

The Ordnance Survey Historical 1:25,000 map is probably the best OS map for placement of names relating to hills and their features, on this map Gelli Hir appears close to the summit of this hill and following its upper northerly ridge

When I first surveyed this hill I made place-name enquiries with a local resident to the south south-east of the hill.  The details are given below:

After visiting the summit of Y Gaer at SO 013 873, I descended to the farm of Cefn and surprised Graham Pugh who was heading to the farm yard from a large barn full of recently born lambs.  Graham is aged 53 and had lived in the local area for 25 years and at the farm of Cefn for 20 years, he originally comes from Staylittle / Penffordd-las (SN 887 920).  He can speak Welsh but said that he gets his ‘rights’ and ‘lefts’ muddled up and told me about a visit to a market where he was given directions and he couldn’t remember if the word meant left or right, we both chuckled at this.  I believe this was due to a lack of Welsh being spoken in the area where Graham now lives, so his use of the language is not on a daily basis.  I explained where I had come from and where I was heading.  We were soon talking about the name of the hill.

Graham told me he didn’t really know a name for this hill, I asked if he ever referred to the hill by any name and he said that he just calls it Top of the Bwlch.  The farm of Bwlch is situated at SN 995 875, it seems the summit of the hill is on their land.  I asked if he had ever heard the name of Gelli Hir in relation to this hill.  He then said that this was funny as he’d had a recent conversation with the person from Coedmawr farm, who had just bought the land going up to the top of this hill from the other (north-west) side and they had called it Gelli something.  The name of Gelli Hir (Gelli-hir on older maps) appears on current maps just below the summit of this hill.  However, on older OS maps this name appears as a ‘ridge’ name going across the top of the hill and down its northern ridge.

Graham Pugh of Cefn farm

Place-name research can be similar to fitting pieces of a giant jigsaw together, each piece is important, but on occasion the pieces (the information given) seem as if they do not fit together.  However, each piece of information is important and can be assessed against other information found at a later date.  And this was so with this hill’s name, as I already knew that the Historical 1:25,000 map has the name of Gelli Hir following the upper northern ridge of this hill, as this map is by far the most precise produced by the Ordnance Survey for place-name position I was inclined to believe that the name of Gelli Hir was appropriate to use for this hill, and the information given by Graham Pugh, although only tentative, was also substantive when coupled with the placement of this name on the old 1:25,000 map.  I hoped that the Tithe map would substantiate the use of Gelli Hir for this hill’s name.

Unfortunately the Tithe map for this area is almost unintelligible, however the number 2096 is given to the adjoining land to where the summit of this hill is situated, this number can be cross referenced against the apportionments; it is these apportionments that give the name of the owner or occupier of the land as well as the name of the land.  The land given the number of 2096 is named as Allotment on the Tithe map, and importantly the next number; 2097, which is probably the adjoined land, is named as Gelli hir and is described as Pasture; these details are listed under the county named as Montgomery and in the parish of Llandinam.

Accessing information on the Tithe map is simplified by the use of a split screen enabling the summit to be pinpointed on the map on the right and for the same point to appear on the Tithe map on the left.  Unfortunately in this instance the Tithe map is almost unintelligible, however the number 2096 is given to the adjoined land

2096 is named as 'Allotment' with 2097 named as Gelli hir

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Gelli Hir

Previously Listed Name:  Rhosfawr

 

Summit Height:  307.2m (converted to OSGM15, Leica GS15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 99902 88383 

   

Drop:  124.7m (Leica GS15 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

Dominance:  40.60% (Leica GS15 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

For details on the first survey and the second survey of Gelli Hir

Myrddyn Phillips (June 2016)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Trichant

Y Gaer (SO 013 873)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Y Trichant, with the following details relating to a hill that was surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 on the 7^th February 2014 and also on the 2^nd May 2014 along with the Leica GS15.

The hill is situated in the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the northern part of mid Wales.  The hill is positioned to the south of Caersws and to the east north-east of Llanidloes, with the small community of Llandinam at its base beside the Afon Hafren (River Severn) which is to its north-east.

Y Gaer (SO 013 873)

The hill appeared in the 300m P30 list on Geoff Crowder’s  v-g.me website under the name of; Coed Mawr, with an accompanying note stating; Name from wood to the east.  The name of Coed Mawr is printed in large letters on Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger maps and takes in the whole eastern side of this hill where a mixed wood plantation is situated.  The name of Coed Mawr also appears on Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer maps and is placed near the summit of this hill.

Coed Mawr

308m

SO013874

136

214

Clem/Yeaman.  Twin top. Name from wood to the East.

The listing this hill is now a part of is named Y Trichant and these are the 300m height band of hills within the Twmpau (thirty welsh metre prominences and upward) and takes in all Welsh hills at or above 300m and below 400m in height that have a minimum 30m of drop,  with the introduction to the re-naming of this list appearing on Mapping Mountains on the 13^th May 2017, and the summit height, drop and status of the hill was determined by the survey with the Trimble GeoXH 6000.

The name this hill is now listed by is Y Gaer, and this was derived from local enquiry and from the Tithe map.  The term Tithe map is generally given to a map of a Welsh or English parish or township and which was prepared after the 1836 Tithe Commutation Act.  This act allowed tithes to be paid in cash rather than goods.  The Tithe maps gave names of owners and occupiers of land in each parish and importantly for place-name research they also included the name of enclosed land.  This enclosed land is usually based on a field system, however not every field is given a name, but many are and especially so in Wales.

Place name research can be a problematic occupation as the prioritised chose of a name can depend upon personal judgement where evaluation of the research at hand is assessed, and in the case of this hill’s name the judgement has been based on local enquiries and details from the Tithe map.

When I first surveyed this hill I made place-name enquiries with local residents to the north and to the south of the hill.  These are given below:

To the north of the hill:

I wanted to visit a Twin Hump and survey both summits and the intervening bwlch, and hopefully meet one or two locals, or call at one or two farms on the way to ask about names of the hills.

My ascent route from the outskirts of Llandinam went up the Waen Lane (map and local spelling).  As I was nearing the end of the lane before venturing on to fields I came across a man trying to get a long ladder off the roof of a van.  I offered to help, he declined with a smile and we started talking.  His name is Malcolm Lanham (aged 68), a good Welsh name was his tongue in cheek remark when he introduced himself.  He had lived in Llandinam all his life and couldn’t speak Welsh, although he did have an understanding of some words.  I asked the name of the hill that I was heading up.

Malcolm told me that the name of the hill is the Waen Hill.  I commented upon the name of the lane that Malcolm’s bungalow is built next to and he said the Waen Lane.  He then mentioned that the Waen Farm is further on around the lane and up the hill.  I presume this old farm is situated at SO 016 883 as the word Waen appears on the map at this position.  I asked about the spelling of Waen / Waun and it was confirmed as Waen, I mentioned the use of ‘u’ in modern Cymraeg but Malcolm did not pass further comment; he just smiled and sort of shrugged his shoulders.  Not really a demonstration of ignorance, just one of not knowing.  I asked if he had ever heard another name for the hill, his reply was ‘no, it’s known as the Waen Hill’.  I also asked if this is the name that the hill is known by in Llandinam and he said ‘yes’.  I then asked about a name that appears on the map; Coed Mawr, Malcolm said that this was a patch of forestry and not the name of the hill; he also knew that the name of the Waen Hill did not appear on the map.

To the south of the hill:

After visiting the summit at SO 013 873, I descended to the farm of Cefn and surprised Graham Pugh who was heading to the farm yard from a large barn full of recently born lambs.  Graham is aged 53 and had lived in the local area for 25 years and at the farm of Cefn for 20 years, he originally comes from Staylittle / Penffordd-las (SN 887 920).  He can speak Welsh but said that he gets his ‘rights’ and ‘lefts’ muddled up and told me about a visit to a market where he was given directions and he couldn’t remember if the word meant left or right, we both chuckled at this.  I believe this was due to a lack of Welsh being spoken in the area where Graham now lives, so his use of the language is not on a daily basis.  I explained where I had come from and where I was heading.  We were soon talking about the name of the hill.

Graham gave me the name of The Gaer without prompting and it almost matches a name that appears close to the summit of this hill on the map, almost as the name that does appear on the map is Y Gaer, which is marked at SO 015 878.  I asked about the name of Coed Mawr, Graham said that he’d only ever heard this name in relation to the farm of Coedmawr which is positioned at SN 990 888.  He told me that Coed Mawr is not the name of the hill.

Graham Pugh of Cefn farm

It is not uncommon to find one hill known by different names in opposing valleys, where this happens all one can do is note each name and conduct further research.  When I consulted the Tithe map the enclosed land where the summit of this hill is situated is given the number 533, with the number 2047 also appearing in the corner of this land, these numbers can be cross referenced against the apportionments; it is these apportionments that give the name of the owner or occupier of the land as well as the name of the land.  The land where the summit of this hill is situated is named as Cae Dirge and is described as Meadow; it appears in the county named as Montgomery and in the parish of Llandinam.

Accessing information on the Tithe map is simplified by the use of a split screen enabling the summit to be pinpointed on the map on the right and for the same point to appear on the Tithe map on the left

Importantly the Tithe map associates the land where the summit of this hill is situated as being a part of the land of Gaer and not that of Waen.  Both are old farms with that of Gaer no longer appearing on current Ordnance Survey maps but its remains are situated at approximately SO 016 880, whilst Waen is positioned at SO 016 883.

The land where the summit of this hill is situated is named as Cae Dirge on the Tithe map

The corner of this land is also named as a part of Cae Dirge

Although the hill is known from its northern side as Waen Hill, the land adjoined to its summit area is associated with the Gaer, and this is the name given me on the southern side of the hill, therefore it is being listed as Y Gaer, with the caveat that the land where its summit is situated is named as Cae Dirge on the Tithe map.  

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Y Gaer

Previously Listed Name:  Coed Mawr 

Summit Height:  307.1m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  136

Summit Grid Reference:  SO 01350 87380  

Drop:  91.3m (converted to OSGM15)

For details on the first survey and the second survey of Y Gaer

Myrddyn Phillips (June 2016)