Showing posts with label Surveys: 26 Carn yr Hyrddod. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Surveys: 26 Carn yr Hyrddod. Show all posts

Thursday, 19 June 2025

Mapping Mountains – Trimble Surveys – Carn yr Hyrddod

 

05.04.25  Lan Ddu Fawr (SN 787 699) and Carn yr Hyrddod (SN 790 704) 

Lan Ddu Fawr (SN 787 699) from the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod (SN 790 704)

Due to independent surveying and LIDAR analysis there are few important hill surveys that remain.  Lan Ddu Fawr and Carn yr Hyrddod are two of these hills.  They are placed in the open grasslands of the Elenydd, approximately 0.5km apart.  Both are topped by the remains of ancient cairns, with scattered rock at their summits.

Considering the wild surrounds of each hill, they are relatively easy to access, with the minor road leading toward the Llynnau Teifi to their south.  The paved section of this road turns to track and continues to Claerwen; one of the remotest farms in Wales.  The track continues from this farm around the northern section of the Claerwen Reservoir, before turning back to a paved road and its continuation east toward Rhayader Gwy. 

The Llynnau Teifi

Lan Ddu Fawr is given a 593m spot height on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps with a triangulation pillar perched in the remains of the ancient cairn which is now fashioned as a wind shelter.  With the flush bracket adjoined to the trig pillar recorded as 592.836m in height.  Whilst, Carn yr Hyrddod is given a 594m summit spot height, which is coloured beige on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, this indicates an air height, the accuracy of which is not as good compared to that of the flush bracket height.

As current maps give Carn yr Hyrddod 1m higher, it is this hill that is prioritised for listing purposes.  Its classification can be viewed as important as it is listed as a Marilyn, Dewey, Dodd, a Welsh Highland P15 and a 500m Twmpau.  Confusingly the hill originally appeared in the Marilyn and Dewey listings as Waun Claerddu, which applies to land incorporating a large bog to the south-east of the summit of Lan Ddu Fawr.  To add confusion upon confusion the Marilyn list has recently changed its listed name to Lan Ddu Fawr, which applies to the lower map heighted hill and not the higher. 

Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map

These hills had been on our surveying radar for over a year as the higher map heighted hill is one of our named hills for our Groups within our Regions and Sub Regions.  Whilst, the lower hill is also close to Welsh Highland P15 status with LIDAR giving it 14.6m of drop.  Therefore, our plan was to survey each summit, gathering at least two - three data sets from different positions and also to survey the connecting bwlch between the hills.  The weather forecast for the day’s adventure gave clear blue skies, albeit with a brisk chilling easterly wind.

I met Aled at Dinas Mawddwy at 7.30am and proceeded to drive toward Aberystwyth and then the roads heading south before connecting with the narrow road leading to Llynnau Teifi.  We parked close to a cattle grid and fence that headed up toward our hills.  As I opened the car door, the wind hit me and I quickly changed from shorts to walking trousers.  Thankfully Aled had brought spare gloves which I needed as I had dispensed with my winter gear in favour of a thin pair that would only protect from a slight chill, and that easterly wind definitely needed extra protection as it was chilling to the bone.

From where we parked there are two options for a relatively easy route toward the first of our hills; Lan Ddu Fawr.  One is a wide shaly track rising steeply above the road; the other is a comfortably gradiented green vehicle track that headed up beyond the cattle grid and would in time follow the course of a fence.  I was in following Aled mode and he soon headed up the steep shaly section.  Beyond was open hillside and miles of it in every direction.  This is one of the appeals of the Elenydd and few places in Wales can compare. 

Heading to the hill

Our route soon joined the remains of a leet that contoured around grassed hummocks to our west.  Aled soon left me to bag a P10 sub.  He had a number of these on his planned route, which would leave me on the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod and take a circuitous route across the grass and bog toward Bryn Dafydd, before heading back to Trawsallt and continuing to Disgwylfa and eventually more sub hills before reaching the relative comfort of the paved road below.  This would leave me to survey the summits of Carn yr Hyrddod and Lan Ddu Fawr, via the connecting bwlch, surveying all necessary points on the way, before heading back on our inward route to meet Aled back at the car. 

Lan Ddu Fawr above Waun Claerddu

Aled soon bagged the P10 sub and rejoined me as the leet headed toward a forlorn looking gate.  Here we rested whilst I set the Trimble up on a gate post to attune it with satellite configuration.  From here we contoured around the upper part of Waun Claerddu before heading up the steep southerly slopes of Lan Ddu Fawr, which took us to its summit.  By now we were exposed to the wind and it whisked across the hill, so much so that unless hunkered down behind the wind shelter it proved difficult to communicate.  We spent ten minutes or so assessing the summit area and judging what points needed to be surveyed.  Having picked three candidates we headed off following a sheep track on the moor down toward the connecting bwlch. 

Leaving the summit of Lan Ddu Fawr and heading toward Carn yr Hyrddod

If not for the ten figure grid reference produced by LIDAR it would be difficult to pinpoint where the critical point of this bwlch lay, as it consists of much bog, which today was thankfully almost bone dry.  Writing this post on the 6th April follows the driest month of March ever recorded in Wales and England, and the first few days of April have been the same.  This helped us during the walk as few places were boggy and that included the bwlch we were now walking through.  Remembering the LIDAR lay-out of this bwlch, Aled pointed toward its critical point as we headed through its stunningly wild surrounds toward the steepening slopes of Carn yr Hyrddod. 

The bwlch between the two hills

As we crested the upper ridge the wind hit us again.  At least the confines of the bwlch had given some respite from its chilled extremes.  This summit consists of a relatively modern cairn and beside it the jumbled remains of the ancient cairn.  We again assessed the lay of land and pinpointed three positions to survey.  At each summit we looked for large rocks that could be deemed as being part of the natural hill.  There is plenty of rock at each summit, but none that could be described as large enough to be a part of the natural hill and therefore surveys were taken to either grass or the ground at the base of the rock. 

Aled at the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod

As we made our way to the summit a figure appeared beside the wind shelter on Lan Ddu Fawr, by the time our summit assessment was complete he had joined us.  Kevin Nicholls had driven up from Cardiff and was part of the SOTA – Summits on the air community, and planned on setting up his gear back on the summit of Lan Ddu Fawr.  He then headed back toward this summit, and soon afterward Aled was off on his wild hill bagging trek.   I watched as he headed down toward a near bog before claiming height on a ridge leading toward the summit of Bryn Dafydd. 

Aled heads off in to the wilds of the Elenydd 

This left me to my surveying activities.  I knew what needed to be done and even though the wind was proving fierce I had faced similar conditions on a few hills before.  However, with six planned surveys on the two summits I knew that the wind would hinder me more so than the Trimble, as even writing the notes in my surveying notebook proved cumbersome and especially so when the wind was blowing my camera strap and Trimble bag back over my head! 

I soon found a suitable rock to place above the first point to survey and positioned the Trimble on top of it, wedging it in place with two smaller rocks.  This proved an ideal solution to the wind and would be employed on the remaining summit surveys.  Having taken a measurement offset from the equipment’s internal antenna to the ground at its base, I waited patiently for the 0.1m accuracy level to be attained before data should be logged, and once achieved I activated it to gather data. 

Gathering data at the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod

During data collection I stood a safe distance away from the equipment so as not to hinder satellite reception, scribbled all necessary detail in my survey notebook, whose pages were flapping about in the wind.  Once five minutes of data were collected and stored I turned the equipment off, took a series of photographs and repeated the process at two further points.  Progress was being made.

Leaving the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod I headed back down to the sheltered confines of the connecting bwlch.  Using the Trimble as a hand-held device I zeroed in to the ten figure grid reference produced by LIDAR analysis.  The DTM and DSM model give the critical bwlch approximately 5 metres apart.  I favoured using the DTM model as the critical point, and this led me to a small channel amongst copious amounts of rather beautifully coloured grass tussocks. 

Gathering data at the connecting bwlch between the two hills

Wanting a rest from the buffeting wind I decided to take two data sets, both from the same position, with the Trimble placed on top of my rucksack, with its base firmly wedged in the bottom of the channel.  After the first data set was complete I re-positioned the rucksack over the same point but with the Trimble now facing a different direction and set it to gather another five minute data set, during which I sat and looked at some extraordinary purple coloured bog enjoying lichen encrusted bulbous beauty that covered the edge of a near peat hag.  This and looking up toward the summit of Carn yr Hyrddod occupied the next few minutes.  Sometimes surveying can take you to some out of the way places, that in their own right are extraordinarily peaceful and have a tranquility all their own, and this connecting bwlch was one of those places.

Once the second bwlch survey was complete I packed the equipment away and headed around any bog and joined the ridge leading to the summit of Lan Ddu Fawr.  Nearing the top I looked east toward the ridge connecting with Trawsallt and spotted a small figure heading toward its summit.  It was Aled.  He had made good progress and I thought that he’d probably get back to the car before me as I still had three data sets to gather atop Lan Ddu Fawr. 

Aled on his way to Trawsallt

When I arrived back at the wind shelter Kevin Nicholls was hunkered down with his aerials already set up and transmitting, talking to friends in various parts of the country.  I said hi and explained that I wanted to take a series of data sets and would be doing so on the far side of the wind shelter for around 25 minutes.  He indicated that he would remain where he was whilst I did my stuff. 

Kevin Nicholls hunkered own with his SOTA equipment in place

I soon had the first position set up, again using a rock to place the Trimble on and two others to wedge it in place.  Once the measurement offset was taken I retreated as it collected another data set.  Once complete I headed back around the cairn to tell Kevin that the first was now complete and two more were to be taken.

This routine of using a rock to slightly elevate the Trimble and give it a solid platform and to protect it from any wind disturbance with two wedged rocks, proved ideal and soon the second data set was complete.  Before moving the Trimble to the last position I again headed off to tell Kevin that only one remained to take. 

Carn yr Hyrddod from Lan Ddu Fawr

The third position was going to be the most difficult to get a good data set from as Aled and I had decided that one needed to be taken at the entrance to the wind shelter.  This meant that even with its slight elevation on its rock the Trimble was faced with higher rock immediately above on three sides.  This is not conducive to either attaining the 0.1m accuracy level before data should be logged, let alone attaining a good data set, we will have to wait and see what the processed data gives. 

Gathering data at the summit of Lan Ddu Fawr

As the last data set was nearing completion Kevin was packing up his gear and therefore a quick bit of wind driven conversation later and we decided to head down the hill together.  All that remained was to take a few photos of the last of the eight survey positions taken during the day, pack the equipment away, get my rucksack on and join Kevin as we headed down the hill.

Our route took us back to the gate where on the ascent I had taken a data set to attune the Trimble to the local satellite reception.  From here we opted to follow Kevin’s inward route, walking on a good quad bike track beside the fence line.  We took our time on our outward walk with lots of good conversation. 

Kevin Nicholls

By the time we arrived back at the two awaiting cars, Aled was already there, flat on his back resting in the sun.  He’d made good time on his route around the hills.  Before leaving we chatted with Kevin for quite sometime about the various hills he’d transmitted from and those he hoped to visit.  It had been an excellent day on the hill, with all plans fulfilled.  It should be an interesting survey result! 

 

Postscript: 

The processed Trimble result could not split the heghts of these hills and therefore they are now listed as a twin top in the Deweys and 500m Twmpau lists.  However, for convenience the data given below uses Carn yr Hyrddod as the prioritised hill.  Please click here for more information relating to the Dewey twin top announcement. 

 

Survey Result: 

 

Lan Ddu Fawr (significant name change for the Deweys)

Summit Height:  592.7m (converted to OSGM15) (summit relocation based on twin top for the Deweys) (summit relocation based on twin top for the 500m Twmpau)

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 78759 69974

Bwlch Height:  578.1m (converted to OSGM15, average of two surveys)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SN 78931 70288

Drop:  14.6m

Dominance:  2.47%

 

 

Carn yr Hyrddod (significant name change for the Deweys)

Summit Height:  592.7m (converted to OSGM15, Trimble GeoXH 6000) (summit relocation based on twin top for the Deweys) (summit relocation based on twin top for the 500m Twmpau)

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 79069 70421 (Trimble GeoXH 6000)

Bwlch Height:  424.8m (LIDAR)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SN 79547 66955 (LIDAR)

Drop:  168.0m (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

Dominance:  28.34% (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

 

 

For further details please consult the Trimble Survey Spreadsheet

Tuesday, 19 December 2023

Mapping Mountains – Trimble Surveys – Carn yr Hyrddod

 

11.11.23  Esgair Hengae (SN 815 686) and Pt. 516.1m (SN 811 693) 

Esgair Hengae (SN 815 686)

With the weather set fine I met Aled on the outskirts of Dinas Mawddwy and having left my car close to the Brigands Inn, we continued south to the minor dead end road heading toward the wild surrounds of Llynnau Teifi.

The prioritised hill of the day was Esgair Hengae; which was my penultimate Welsh Highland P15.  It had been a long journey getting to this point, with my first 500m P15 hill purposely bagged in April 2004.  There have been many walks since, some of these involving surveying the marginal hills that make up this list.  However, Esgair Hengae easily made the criteria for this list with Aled confirming it as a P20 via LIDAR analysis. 

The last of the early morning mist

Claerddu bothy

We were walking by 9.00am having left Aled’s car parked on a grass verge adjacent and close to the end of the paved section of road.  On our way here we passed many cars pulled up either in passing places or on the grass verge.  We found this odd, but later were to find that two parties consisting of 18 people were staying in the near bothy of Claerddu.  The last time I was here was with Mark Trengove and we parked on a small gravelled section adjacent to the end of the paved road, today this had been extended and cordoned off with all manner of small buildings signifying works in progress. 

The small parking area used to be where the work units are now situated

Our planned route followed the track that continues from the end of the paved road, heading down to what is marked on the map as a ford.  As the last three weeks have been particularly wet I had come prepared wearing my winder walking gear of wellies.  I was thankful I had done so, as the ford was awash with fast flowing water.  This is a part of the Afon Claerddu which is fed hereabouts by a multitude of streams, all heading down from their higher reed infested bogs, which we encountered later in the walk! 

The ford was awash with water

How did he get across so quick!?!?

Aled was soon over the water having jumped to one small grassy island and then on to a rock and finally over on to the opposing bank.  I knew this was not for me, maybe 20 years ago when my limbs and body were more subtle and lithe, but now the knowledge that I am not as young as I was has bred a lack of confidence in such activity and therefore I walked up stream looking for a narrow section to wade through.  I quickly found what I thought was appropriate and slowly submerged myself in to the water.  Each step proved hazardous with slippy rock underneath, however I was soon through the water with it only once coming over the top of one of my wellies and even then none soaked my leg or foot.

This time of year many of the quad bike tracks were no more than wet runnels on the moor  

Beyond the stream were two quad bike tracks which left the main track which in time heads down to one of Wales’ wildest and remote farms; Claerwen.  We opted for the nearest track and slowly made progress uphill with much of it infested in water and bog. 

A particularly wet section of moor (Photo: Aled Williams)

We then used another track on the moor to contour the upper part of the stream and headed up the final section toward the summit of Esgair Hengae.  By now we had heard the distant rumbling of a vehicle and spotted it heading off toward a small stationary digger lower on the moor to our west.  It then turned and headed our way.  We waited for it to arrive.  The vehicle had two people and two dogs in it, by the time we arrived next to it they were out on the moor admiring the view.  We chatted with them for ten minutes or so with me asking if they could take us over the next bog between us and a sub hill that Aled wanted to visit.  They couldn’t as the connecting bwlch was full of newly created pools with each damned with peat and moss.  The couple were from Skipton and were working for the Elan Valley Trust creating wetlands.  They had done similar work in Lancashire and Cumbria and also in Eryri.  It was fascinating listening to how they created these new wetlands and what purpose they would fulfil.  Sadly as they could not take us further we waved them off toward their digger and we turned and sauntered the few remaining metres toward the high point of Esgair Hengae. 

The newly created wetlands are in the background on the left of this photo

The high point of this hill consists of grass amongst a deluge of moor and bog.  Toward our south-east the lonely farm of Claerwen stared back; an incredibly remote habitat for Wales which is surrounded by some of the most wild and desolate land in the country.  In all directions, except for the confines of the farm were miles of Elenydd grassland, now turned from their summer greenness to a dulled fawn colour, this spread in all directions, a marvellous but also forbidding sight. 

The green oasis of the remote farm of Claerwen with Drygarm Fawr beyond

As I set the Trimble up to gather data Aled put his rucksack on the tranquillity of grass and had a bite to eat.  As the screen of the equipment faced the sun I could not see whether the 0.1m figure before data should be logged had appeared and therefore asked Aled if he could activate the Trimble to gather data.  As it quietly beeped away gathering its individual datum points I looked at the unremitting land and tried to recover my breath from the ascent. 

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Esgair Hengae

Once the equipment was packed away I now had a choice, either return via the ford and reclaim height on the inward track back to Aled’s car, or join him on the main ridge heading toward the next two summits, I opted for the latter as this probably consisted of less ascent.  I soon regretted my decision as the next bwlch was horrendous.  This was where the wet land and its small pools was situated and although one or two bog bound quad bike tracks took us past the pools we were soon immersed in an absolutely horrendous bog.  At one point one of my wellies sank deep in to bog bound water and refused to be brought back out with the suction of slime keeping it firmly in place.  It took me a number of minutes to extricate it and still there was more bog to negotiate.  By now Aled was on the other side lying on a patch of welcome grass enjoying a burst of direct sunlight.  I eventually made it through the bog and joined him lying on the ground soaking up the welcome warmth. 

Crossing the wet lands

This proved a particularly gruesome bog

Ahead was the summit of the sub, Aled was soon on top and as for me, well, I very slowly joined him.  The bog had taken its toll and I was already knackered.  However, there was one more summit to visit; Esgair Garreg Naw Llyn.  I had visited this summit before and remember the view from its high point, looking over near lakes as they disappeared off in to the distance.  Today its summit still looked a long way away. 

Nearing the summit of the sub

Thankfully the crossing of the next bwlch was not as problematic as the previous and we were soon on patches of grass with the worst of the terrain now behind us.  As I slowly plodded behind Aled a quad bike appeared and just as quickly disappeared behind a ridge.  It then materialised again and headed our way, Aled shot down to meet the farmer.  The next 15 minutes or so was spent listening to Aled and Tom speak Welsh, I was aware of many of the names being given and one or two relating to drowning pools, remote summits and horses.  However, by now I was more than happy just to stand and rest and listen.  It turned out that Tom was one of the farmers I had contacted when doing the bulk of my place-name research many years ago.  I was only aware of this when Aled emailed me the following day; I replied that if I had known I would have given him a big hug.  I’m not sure what Tom would have made of this. 

Crossing the next bwlch

As Tom left looking for some stray sheep, I knew that I would not be visiting the summit of the next hill and as Aled sped toward it to scribble all the names Tom had given him in a notebook, I indicated that I would make my way to the southerly descending ridge and wait for him there.  Aled was soon out of view.  Having found a convenient and helpful sheep track that contoured the steepening slopes I was now able to plod at my own pace to the lower ridge.  Once there I found a perfectly placed rock jutting out of the grass which made a convenient place to sit and wait for Aled to come down from the summit. 

The track leading down to Claerddu

I was amazed that Aled had done this walk wearing walking boots as the ground had been sodden.  I was thankful I had chosen my wellies which I would recommend to any hill walker for the late autumn and winter season. 

Claerddu bothy

Claerddu nestled amongst the hills

Once Aled had joined me we followed a delightful quad bike track down the steepening southerly grassy ridge toward the old farm house of Claerddu.  This is now a bothy and as Aled headed up the green track beyond it, I popped my head around the corner to say hello to its occupants.  They proved very friendly with good conversation and an offer of a cup of tea.  This was so temping but my walking buddy was now up the track so I had to decline. 

One of the Llynnau Teifi

For me the plod back to the awaiting car was slow.  I eventually made it with my mind wandering to hot mugs of tea and a relaxed and comfortable sit down.  Esgair Hengae did not disappoint.  It is a marvellously positioned hill at the end of a wildly situated ridge overlooking many others of similar composition.  It also proved to be my penultimate Welsh Highland P15, 629 of the little rascals done, just one more to go!     

 

Survey Result:

 

Esgair Hengae                           

Summit Height:  509.8m (converted to OSGM15, Trimble GeoXH 6000)

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 81511 68622 (Trimble GeoXH 6000)

Bwlch Height:  488.3m (LIDAR)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SN 81209 68976 (LIDAR)

Drop:  21.5m (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

Dominance:  4.22% (Trimble GeoXH 6000 summit and LIDAR bwlch)

 

 

Pt. 516.1m                                  

Summit Height:  516.1m (LIDAR)

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 81146 69347 (LIDAR

Bwlch Height:  504.0m (LIDAR)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SN 80795 69399 (LIDAR)

Drop:  12.1m (LIDAR)

Dominance:  2.35% (LIDAR)

 

 

For further details please consult the Trimble Survey Spreadsheet