Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – 500m Twmpau and Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru

 

Mynydd St Ioan (SH 973 202) 

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the 500m Twmpau and Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru, with the summit height, bwlch height and their locations, the drop and status of the hill derived from LIDAR analysis conducted by Aled Williams. 

Mynydd St Ioan (SH 973 202)

The criteria for the two listings that this name change applies to are:

500m Twmpau – Welsh hills at or above 500m and below 600m in height with 30m minimum drop, with an accompanying sub category entitled the 500m Sub-Twmpau consisting of all Welsh hills at or above 500m and below 600m in height with 20m or more and below 30m of drop.  The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips, with the word Twmpau being an acronym standing for thirty welsh metre prominences and upward.

500m Twmpau by Myrddyn Phillips

Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru – Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 15m minimum drop, with an accompanying sub list entitled the Welsh Highland Subs, the criteria for which is all Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 10m or more and below 15m of drop.  This list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams with the Introduction to the list published on Mapping Mountains in November 2015 and the latest update relating to the list published on Mapping Mountains in January 2023.                                    

Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru by Aled Williams and Myrddyn Phillips

The hill is adjoined to the Esgeiriau Gwynion group of hills, which are situated in the southern part of North Wales (Region A, Sub-Region A3), and it is positioned with the B4393 road to its north-east, and has the village of Llanwddyn towards the east south-east.

When the listing that became known as the 500m Twmpau and also the listing that became known as the Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru was first compiled by Myrddyn Phillips, this hill appeared under the name of Mynydd St John, which is a prominent name that appears beside the summit of the hill on the Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger and 1:25,000 Explorer map. 

Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map

The intricacies of language and prioritising one in favour of another for listing a hill is fraught with complication, with originating Cymraeg names being anglicised and also originating English names being cymricised, examples such as these are more common in border country and especially so for anglicised forms.  There is no steadfast rule that fits all, but as a standard a name that has its origins in the Welsh language and where this is substantiated by either historic documentation and/or contemporary usage should be prioritised in favour of a contemporary anglicised or English version of the name.  Likewise, if a name exists where an element of it is in English and if this name applies to a hill that is situated in a Welsh speaking part of Wales it is standard practice to use a full Welsh term for the name.  It is also standard practice to use a Welsh name for a hill if another name exists that has originated in a different language.

Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in the 500m Twmpau and Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru is Mynydd St Ioan and this was derived from the contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 Landranger and 1:25,000 Explorer map, with the prioritised language protocol being used.  Interestingly the Welsh name of Ioan is also used on these maps for a ffridd that is positioned to the east of the summit of this hill. 

 

The full details for the hill are: 

Group:  Esgeiriau Gwynion 

Name:  Mynydd St Ioan 

Previously Listed Name:  Mynydd St John 

OS 1:50,000 map:  125 

Summit Height:  512.9m (LIDAR) 

Summit Grid Reference:  SH 97379 20286 (LIDAR) 

Bwlch Height:  489.1m (LIDAR) 

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SH 96246 19964 (LIDAR) 

Drop:  23.8m (LIDAR) 

 

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (December 2024)

 

 

 

 

 

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru

Fronllwyd (SH 617 631)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru, with the summit height, bwlch height and there locations, the drop and status of the hill derived from a combination of surveys.  With the drop of the hill derived from a level and staff line survey conducted by John Barnard, Graham Jackson and Myrddyn Phillips, the summit height and its position derived by a Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey conducted by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams and the bwlch position derived from LIDAR analysis conducted by Aled Williams.

Fronllwyd (SH 617 631)

The criteria for the list that this name change applies to are:

Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru – Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 15m minimum drop, with an accompanying sub list entitled the Welsh Highland Subs, the criteria for which is all Welsh hills at or above 500m in height with 10m or more and below 15m of drop.  This list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams with the Introduction to the list published on Mapping Mountains in November 2015 and the latest update relating to the list published on Mapping Mountains in January 2023.

Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru by Aled Williams and Myrddyn Phillips

The hill is adjoined to the Glyder Fawr group of hills, which are situated in the north-western part of North Wales (Region A, Sub-Region A1), and it is positioned with the Afon Ogwen and the A5 road to its north-east and Llyn Padarn, Llyn Peris and the A4086 road towards its south-west, and has the town of Bethesda towards the north and the village of Llanberis towards the south-west.

The hill first made an appearance in a published hill list in 1940 when Ted Moss listed it as Carnedd y Filiast Point N.W. in his The Two-Thousands of Wales published by The Rucksack Club Journal.

When this hill was first included in the listing that later became known as Yr Uchafion and latterly as the Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru it was listed by Myrddyn Phillips under the directional name of Carnedd y Filiast North-west Top with an accompanying note stating; Named from mountain to the South-east.

During the early hill listing that Myrddyn Phillips conducted he thought it appropriate to either invent a name for a hill, or use a name that appeared near to the summit of the hill on Ordnance Survey maps of the day.  His preference was to use farm names and put Pen, Bryn or Moel in front of them or as in this instance use a directional name based on supplanting the name of a near hill and adding a directional component to it.  This is not a practice that he now advocate as with time and inclination place-name data can be improved either by asking local people or by examining historic documents, through this form of research an appropriate name for the hill can usually be found.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map

It was during the compilation of the Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru list that Myrddyn Phillips first made place-name enquiries with local farmers, grazers and landowners, during this process there were many people who gave me an enormous amount of help, with one of these being Ieuan Wyn who at the time of my enquiries lived in Bethesda.  It was Ieuan who first told me that this hill is known as Fronllwyd or with the use of the definite article; Y Fronllwyd.  During subsequent enquiries this was substantiated by a number of local farmers, including Glyn Williams, Gwyn Thomas and William Williams.  The name of Fronllwyd also appears on contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer maps, however it is misspelt and appears as Fronllwydd.

Therefore, the name this hill is now listed by in the  Welsh Highlands – Uchafion Cymru is Fronllwyd and this was derived from local enquiry, with this name also appearing in a misspelt form on the contemporary Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map.

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Glyder Fawr

Name:  Fronllwyd

Previously Listed Name:  Carnedd y Filiast North-west Top

OS 1:50,000 map:  115

Summit Height:  720.8m (converted to OSGM15, Trimble GeoXH 6000)

Summit Grid Reference:  SH 61747 63161 (Trimble GeoXH 6000)

Bwlch Height:  704.6m (relative to Trimble summit and line survey for drop)

Bwlch Grid Reference:  SH 61858 63028 (LIDAR)

Drop:  16.1m (line survey)

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (October 2019)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru and 500m Twmpau

Tor Du (SN 842 856)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that is listed in the Yr Uchafion and 500m Twmpau, with the summit height and its position confirmed by a survey with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 which took place on the 18^th July 2016, and the bwlch height and its position confirmed by LIDAR analysis initially conducted by Aled Williams and subsequently by Myrddyn Phillips.

The criteria for the two listings that this name change applies to are:

Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at and above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams. 

500m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at and above 500m and below 600m in height with 30m minimum drop, with the word Twmpau being an acronym standing for thirty welsh metre prominences and upward.  The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.  

The hill is a part of the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group hills in the north-western part of Mid and West Wales, and it is situated above the A 44 road which is to its south and is positioned between the small communities of Llangurig to its south-east and the even smaller community of Eisteddfa Gurig to its west south-west.

Tor Du (SN 842 856)

The hill first made an appearance in an unpublished hill list in 1985 when Tony Blackburn listed it as Tor Du in The 500 Metre Tops of England and Wales, and was later included by Michael Dewey and listed as Esgair y Maesnant SE Top in the April 2002 edition of Strider which included the updates to The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales list that appeared in his Mountain tables book published by Constable in 1995.

These two listings relied upon Ordnance Survey maps of the day for the hill names used within their compilations, and as shown below by extracts taken from a number of Ordnance Survey maps there are hill names that for inexplicable reasons do not appear on subsequent published maps, and this is what has happened in relation to this hill and its name. 

When this hill was first included in the Yr Uchafion and the list that later became known as the 500m Twmpau it was listed as Esgair y Maesnant South-East Top, with the use of a directional name based on its adjacent peak toward the north-west, and this is the name used when the details relating to a rudimentary survey that gave the hill over 30m of drop were sent to Michael Dewey, who excepted the survey result and listed it as Esgair y Measnant SE Top.  The information sent to Michael was reliant upon Ordnance Survey maps of the day and these did not show a name for the hill.

Over recent years there have been a number of Ordnance Survey maps made available online, some of these are historical such as the series of Six-Inch maps on the National Library of Scotland website, whilst others are current and digitally updated such as the enlarged map hosted on the Geograph website.  Three of the historical maps now available are the Ordnance Survey One-Inch Seventh Series, One-Inch New Popular and the historical 1:25,000 map, all of which relied heavily for their place-name detail on the series of Six-Inch maps.

Extracts from a number of Ordnance Survey maps appear below giving detail relating to the name Tor Du and its placement at or near the summit of this hill, and its exclusion from current Ordnance Survey maps.

Extract from the series of Ordnance Survey Six Inch maps

Extract from the Ordnance Survey One-Inch Seventh Series map

Extract from the Ordnance Survey One-Inch New Popular map

Extract from the Ordnance Survey historical 1:25,000 map

Extract from the current Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map with the hill without its name

It was because of these earlier Ordnance Survey maps that this hill was subsequently listed in both Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau compilations as Tor Du.  However, place-name data can be substantiated by making local enquiries, and on the day when this hill was Trimbled I asked a number of farmers who were relaxing in the early morning sunshine vapouring, the names of the hills.  I was subsequently offered a lift up to the bwlch between Y Drum and Esgair y Maesnant by Huw Meyrick, who had lived in the area for twenty years and was only too happy to talk about the hills and their names, and along with giving many other hill names Huw named this hill Tor Du, substantiating the hill’s name that unfortunately no longer appears on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps.

Huw Meyrick

Therefore, as a result of detail on old Ordnance Survey maps which has been substantiated by local enquiry the hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Tor Du in the Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau.

ills of Wales, and are reproduced below@

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Tor Du

Previously Listed Name:  Esgair y Maesnant South-East Top

 

Summit Height:  505.6m (converted to OSGM15)

OS 1:50,000 map:  135, 136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 84268 85679  

Drop:  33.0m (Trimble summit and LIDAR bwlch)

For details on the survey of Tor Du

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (December 2016)

Mapping Mountains – Significant Name Changes – Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Welsh Highlands - Uchafion Cymru and 500m Twmpau

Bryn Llwyd (SN 835 920)

There has been a Significant Name Change to a hill that appears in the following listings, Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau, with the height, drop, summit relocation and status of the hill being confirmed by a survey with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 which took place on the 5^th May 2016 and the 13^th May 2016.

The criteria for the three listings that this name change applies to are:

Y Pellennig –The Remotest Hills of Wales comprise all Welsh hills whose summit is 2.5km or more from the nearest paved public road and which have a minimum 15m of drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams.

Yr Uchafion - All Welsh hills at or above 500m in height that have 15m minimum drop.  The list is co-authored by Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams. 

500m Twmpau - All Welsh hills at or above 500m and below 600m in height with 30m minimum drop, with the word Twmpau being an acronym standing for thirty welsh metre prominences and upward.  The list is authored by Myrddyn Phillips.  

The hill is a part of the Pumlumon range, which is an extensive group of hills in the north-western part of Mid and West Wales, and it is relatively remote for a Welsh hill with the nearest small community being Penffordd-las (Staylittle) to the east.

The Trimble GeoXH 6000 gathering data at the summit of Bryn Llwyd

The listed summit of this hill has been relocated from Bryn yr Ŵyn at SN 83919 92571 to Bryn Llwyd at SN 83574 92022, with the latter surveyed with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 as being 1.5m higher.  

The hill first made an appearance in a hill list in 1997 when John Kirk listed it as Bryn Yr Wyn, using the name of the adjacent hill but with the correct grid reference in his Kirk’s BIG Mountain List, this list that remains unpublished but available via the author.  The adjacent lower hill was later included by Michael Dewey and listed as Bryn yr Wyn in the April 2002 edition of Strider, which included the updates to The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales list that appeared in his Mountain tables book published by Constable in 1995.  The summit of the Dewey was later relocated due to the Trimble GeoXH 6000 survey to the higher summit and listed as Esgair Greolen.

Prior to making local place-name enquiries the now known higher summit was accepted as being named Esgair Greolen, and since this summit has usurped its neighbour as being the higher, this is the name used in Michael’s list to The 500-Metre Tops of England and Wales.

Hill list authors are prone to list a hill by the name that appears nearest to its summit on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, without much consideration for its local or historical confirmation, or whether map placement is appropriate.  However, place-name data can be improved by asking local people and examining historical documents, and on the way to survey this hill for the second time with the Trimble GeoXH 6000 I made place-name enquiries with the local farmer, who kindly took me up in his two seater quad bike toward the hill.  Afterward both Aled and I examined a number of historical maps for evidence of where the name of Esgair Greolen originated and where it is applicable to.

The local farmer I met is named Gareth Griffith and he had farmed from Nant-yr-hafod for forty years, he was out with his dogs heading up the hill to feed the sheep.  As we chatted I asked him about the names of the local hills, and he rolled off name after name of the local hills and streams, one in particular proved extremely interesting, it related to the hill that Ordnance Survey maps name as Esgair Greolen, which was the hill I wanted to concentrate the morning’s surveying activities on.  Gareth knew this hill as Bryn Llwyd, and said that ‘this name doesn’t appear on the map.’  I asked him about the name of Esgair Greolen, and he had never heard of it.

Gareth Griffith

Gareth gave me a lift up the hill on his two seater quad bike and dropped me off at the end of the track close to the forested summit of Fedw Ddu.  From this vantage point we were looking across to Bryn yr Ŵyn and also the hill I planned on prioritising to survey, and Gareth pointed toward each and named them, Bryn yr Ŵyn and Bryn Llwyd, the latter is the hill named as Esgair Greolen on contemporary Ordnance Survey maps.

When back home I examined old Ordnance Survey maps and forwarded the details of my meeting with Gareth Griffith to Aled, who proceeded to research where the name of Esgair Greolen originated and what feature this name may be applicable to.  Aled’s comments relating to this appear in the 2^nd edition of Y Pellennig - The Remotest Hills of Wales, and are reproduced below:

The OS have applied the name Esgair Greolen to this hill since the 1901 Six-Inch map, however earlier OS maps provide conflicting information regarding the positions of the steams named Nant Esgair Greolen and Nant y Barcud, which casts uncertainty over the exact position of Esgair Greolen.  A single local contact failed to confirm Esgair Greolen as the name of this hill, but instead visually identified the hill as being known as Bryn Llwyd.

Extracts from a number of Ordnance Survey maps appear below giving detail relating to the name placement of Esgair Greolen and the steams of Nant Esgair Greolen and Nant y Barcud.

Extract from the Ordnance Survey One-Inch 'Old Series' map

Extract from the 1886 Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map

Extract from the 1903 Ordnance Survey Six-Inch map with the stream previously recorded as Nant y Barcud now recorded as the Nant Esgair Greolen

Extract from the Ordnance Survey 1903 Six-Inch map where the name Esgair Greolen first appeared on an Ordnance Survey map

Extract from the current Ordnance Survey 1:25,000 Explorer map

As a result of this research the hill has subsequently been listed under the name of Bryn Llwyd in Y Pellennig – The Remotest Hills of Wales, Yr Uchafion and the 500m Twmpau, and this name was derived from local enquiry and does not appear on any Ordnance Survey map.

ills of Wales, and are reproduced below@

The full details for the hill are:

Group:  Pumlumon

Name:  Bryn Llwyd

Previously Listed Name:  Esgair Greolen 

Summit Height:  501.4m (converted to OSGM15 and average of four summit surveys)

OS 1:50,000 map:  135, 136

Summit Grid Reference:  SN 83574 92022 

 

Drop:  30.3m (converted to OSGM15)

For details on the 1^st survey and the 2nd survey of Bryn Llwyd

Myrddyn Phillips and Aled Williams (December 2016)